The Pharmacologist:

What led you to science? Was it an interest you discovered early in your education?

Akinsanya: My journey into science was a blend of early curiosity and academic inspiration from my parents who were both professors in the health sciences. Growing up, I was always fascinated by how technology and science worked and am a fangirl of David Attenborough’s, but it was during my education in Professor Sir Steve Blooms’ translational lab at Imperial College in the UK (the scientist behind the Metsera deal last year) that my interest in the intersect between science and medicine crystallized. An unexplained illness in my family for which a medicine did not exist led me more towards science and drug discovery than medicine. The idea that a breakthrough in the lab could eventually become a life-saving medicine for a patient was a powerful motivator that has stayed with me from those early days to the executive suite today.

Williams: I went to Korea through a foreign exchange program in high school, and it was my first time going out of the country. That trip was pivotal for me because the culture was so different than the one I grew up in, but at the same time it was warm and inviting and just so transformative. It let me see how other folks in the world were doing science, and how everyone had this shared interest.

Other cultures are beautiful, and travel is essential. Everyone who has the opportunity needs to go somewhere else and meet other people. It helps you realize the core tenets of humanity, and shows you how much more we have in common than we think. There’s no one right way to live.

Reuben: I had planned to be a musician (I’m classically trained on both piano and flute, and I also sing), but I had an explosion in a high school chemistry class.

The Pharmacologist:

Do you mean a metaphorical explosion?

Reuben: I mean one that comes from mixing pure sodium metal and water. I ran out of the class, but then I reflected on what had happened and thought, “That was really cool!”

When I was deciding on college, I had a choice between a music or academic scholarship, and I took the academic scholarship to a small women’s college in South Carolina called Converse College (now Converse University). It was in a chemistry class that I learned about pharmacology, and the impact that it could have on people’s lives. And I wanted to be in a field where the work I did made an impact, where I could see myself helping people. I was also very good at organic chemistry, and pharmacology was a way for me to marry my love of biology and applied science with chemistry.

The Pharmacologist:

We’ve often heard scientists discuss the importance of flexibility. Can you each touch on that?

Williams: It’s a little different in academia, but flexibility is important. A friend and I were postdocs together, and she ended up working on fundamentally different topics—one time it would be pain, and then neurologic disease or infectious disease. She enjoyed that. I don’t want that wide of a scope, but I do need flexibility in my work.

In academia, a lot of our research depends upon funding and, given how funding priorities change, there has to be some flexibility. For me personally, I found it’s hard for me to want to work on things that I’m not really passionate about, or interested in. So while I can adapt, especially given funding shifts, there still needs to be some root foundational interest for me. That said, I can always find my niche within the project, and discover how my work and interests fit into this new landscape.

Akinsanya: Flexibility, adaptability and resilience are not just “soft skills” in science from my perspective; they are survival mechanisms in our ever changing and uncertain world of biology, drug development and life. My career has spanned academia, large pharma (Ferring and Merck), to the cutting edge of computational physics-based molecule invention and translation to disease treatments at Schrödinger. I’ve had to pivot from traditional laboratory, clinical and business roles to leading digital transformations. In industry, the data rarely tells the story you initially predict (translation of science and now the impact of technology to human impact is one of our greatest challenges), and projects you champion at first may need to be deprioritized for strategic reasons beyond data-driven No-Gos. You must be willing to unlearn old methodologies and workflows, adapt, embrace and validate new approaches and technologies—even if they challenge the traditional ways of working.

Being “flexible” and agile means being open to the idea that the best way to solve a problem might be a path you haven’t walked yet.

Reuben: I’d say it depends on what you mean by flexibility. I worked in industry as well, and I remember having core hours when everyone had to be at work. That’s not necessarily the case in academia, but most academicians work more than forty hours per week. We go home, have dinner, and do some more work. And if you’re teaching, you’re probably using that time to respond to student emails.

In COVID, we had the opportunity to work remotely, and are still seeing the impact of that. But if you were, for instance, in private practice as a clinician and your practice shuts down, you don’t generate funds. The flexibility that we saw in academia is that, largely, we could still do the work from home. It showed us the importance of work-life balance, and that’s not a flexibility everyone can enjoy.

The Pharmacologist:

Can you discuss how a particular mentorship influenced you, either as a mentor or a mentee?

Williams: Doctor Joan Berman at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, my PhD mentor, laid the foundation for my entire career.

I came into grad school with a lot of experience and background in terms of experiments, but I lacked the ability to think like a scientist. I didn’t even have the understanding of how to write a paper or apply for a grant. And it just seemed like she enjoyed mentoring me, and seeing me develop and pushing me gently…and sometimes not so gently. When I had hesitations or doubt, particularly when going against people more qualified, Dr. Berman would say, “You won’t become qualified if you don’t stretch yourself.” I learned from her many of the principles that I still use to this day. And it showed me the importance of someone that was really invested in you.

All the folks that I’ve ever had in my lab shaped me because I adjusted to each of them as an individual person. Everyone’s different, so I have to learn how to meet their unique needs, their means of communication. And the more folks I interact with, the more I learn how to be compassionate and caring. They all leave an impression on me, and I think that’s probably one of the favorite parts of my job.

Reuben: I’ve been blessed. I come from a family of academics. My father was a college President, my mother an Academic Dean. I’ve got a lot of deans and provosts in my immediate and extended family, and their mentoring has been, and continues to be, very important.

I also have a mentoring group of women, some of whom are scientists, others who are faculty, staff, and administration. And we mentor each other as well. If one of us is looking for a job, we do the mock interviews and prepare each other, look over documents and CVs and things like that.

I’ve also been a part of the ASPET mentoring committee, and I’ve mentored at the Annual Biomedical Research Conference for Minoritized Students as a peer mentor and faculty mentor.

Akinsanya: Mentorship has been the “north star” of my career. I often think back to the mentors who pushed me to see myself not just as a scientist, but as a leader and a strategist. My parents and Steve Bloom had a major impact on how I thought about challenges early in life. Ken Frazier was a key influence in my career at Merck. He encouraged me to expand my view from being a deep translation scientist role into a broader business development and pipeline strategist. Ken and Peter Kim saw a business-minded “translational strategist” capability in me that I hadn’t yet recognized. This taught me that the best mentors don’t just give advice; they provide sponsorship—putting your name forward in rooms you haven’t entered yet. Today, I prioritize mentoring early career scientists and non-conventional talent with diverse perspectives and a thirst to grow and learn to ensure they have the same “seat at the table” that my mentors helped me secure.

The Pharmacologist:

One of the notable things with today’s students is an interest in social issues, and how their work can introduce positive change. Is this something unique to this generation, or is it commonly found in scientists?

Williams: I can’t say that I think it’s unique to this generation, but I think this generation has the most opportunity to be outspoken and vocal about societal issues. It’s a phenomenal opportunity, something that’s always really been interesting to me. I’ve always wanted to work on something that would have a social impact. Even if I was many steps removed, I wanted to feel like I was contributing in a positive way through my work. And I don’t think I’m alone in that. I think scientists of other generations felt similarly, but it wasn’t something that was as much of a focus as it is now.

Akinsanya: While this generation of students is exceptionally vocal and organized, the desire to create positive change is a fundamental trait of the scientific spirit. Scientists have always been driven by the “why” and the hope that our work will help move the need and alleviate suffering.

However, what is unique today is the holistic view of impact.

Today’s students don’t just care about the molecule; they care about health equity, clinical trial diversity, and sustainable practices. They are holding the industry to a higher standard of accountability. It’s not a new impulse, but it is a more “activated” one, and I believe it makes the scientific community more resilient and more connected to the patients we serve.

Reuben: I think it’s unique in the aspect of how we’ve seen politics impact science in a very real way, such as stem cell research. What we’ve learned is that you can’t really do science without being aware of outside politics and how they’re going to impact you.

COVID showed us that we need to be more engaged with our community. We have to have trust there so people will believe us when we say, “Hey, the data changed, the evidence changed, this is what you’ve got to do now.” It’s imperative that young scientists pay attention to the political landscape and how it could potentially impact the work they do. You can’t put your head in the sand and just work hard and think that going to get you where you want to go.

It’s also part of being a good citizen. As scientists, we are not exempt from being good citizens and thinking not just in the context of the work that we do, but also the impact of what we do in our field on the general public and on the general good.

The Pharmacologist:

This past year has seen marked changes in science—particularly funding cuts, attempts at redefining culture, and federal agencies dramatically altered. What advice would you give a young scientist today? Would it be significantly different than the advice you would have offered two or three years ago?

Akinsanya: My advice today is: “Build expertise that people can rely on, but sharpen your tools, proactively propose solutions and take on stretch assignments when you see problems.” Several years ago, you might have focused more on specialization.

Today, I emphasize the importance of being “bilingual” in science and technology and cross-disciplinary know-how.

Regarding the external climate, I tell young scientists that excellence and persistence are your greatest advocates. Don’t let political or fiscal cycles deter your passion. Science or drug development is a long game; the challenges we face today require the very innovation and diverse perspectives that have led to previous breakthroughs that are the foundation of future discoveries and inventions. Collaboration and raising the bar on data-driven decision-making and impact vs. hype is more necessary now than ever.

Williams: In some ways, my advice is completely different because we haven’t seen this much interest in policy and how it impacts science. It wasn’t something I realized the full extent of when I was a student. And, because of that, my advice would be to not let yourself get disheartened, and instead to think about why you wanted to do this and boldly do the things you want to do in science. There’s still a place for everyone that wants to do this work.

I always remember the advice I got from my grad school mentor when she was talking about the cyclical waves of funding. And that really kind of stayed with me because that philosophy applies not just to funding, but to the public perception of science, to the funding priorities that exist, and to the career opportunities that are available. They do come and go.

It was a hard year for science, in many ways, but I don’t imagine that’s going to persist. I do think there’ll be some cyclical way where things will turn themselves around. Don’t let fear of what’s going to happen, or even the reality of where things are, dissuade you…although I know that’s easier said than done. I know lots of groups have lost funding. People have lost grants they worked hard for, particularly early career investigators and trainees. And that’s really disheartening. And so I have to acknowledge that pain, how it feels unfair and how they probably feel like, “How am I going to get to the next level? What else am I going to do? The path I needed to take no longer exists.”

We have to honor that, as much as we encourage folks that this can’t last forever.

Reuben: I’ve always talked about the importance of being engaged in your community. I think it’s even more important now as we look at the issue of accountability, and of being a good steward of the resources given to us by the general public.

And, again, particularly in the past year, but I’d say even beyond, we’ve seen politics play a much bigger part of it. So I think the advice I would give younger faculty students now is to really be attentive and understand how that can play out. It may make the difference in where you work. There may be a state with a policy that doesn’t support the research that you do. Be mindful about the political landscape and how it can impact you. Always think about the public good and how you are impacting it.

And, finally, give back to your community by talking to the public, learning how to discuss your research in a way that people understand its impact and importance, because that’s going to matter when funding decisions are made.

The Pharmacologist:

Do you think these recent changes will have long-lasting, or even irrevocable, effects in American science?

Reuben: Definitely.

We’ve cut people off in the middle of research that could be life changing. And so, as someone who looks at medications and how they impact people, I think it’s going to take us a while to recover. And that’s going to be very interesting to watch as we look at the impact of changes in funding on things like productivity in science, or research into health disparities.

I don’t know what is actually “irrevocable.” It just may take a much longer time for things to get done.

We’ve now seen a precedent set that politics is always going to be a part of science, and that’s something that scientific societies have to be very intentional about addressing. And in thinking about how we engage people so that we can get the support to do the work that’s going to help the general public.

Williams: I think some things will be long-lasting. There have been lots of changes that alter how young scientists think about their career options, and the effects of that will last for quite some time.

Some people may choose to go in science policy and be emboldened and advocate for science. Or people may have been considering a job at the FDA, maybe the CDC. And now they’re probably not. And I think the impact of that, of young people changing career outcomes, is going to have a profound effect on our federal agencies.

At the same time, as there’s been loss, we’ve seen the kind of folks who want to make things better. I’m curious to see how things will be in three years, in five years, in ten.

Akinsanya: We are certainly at a crossroads. Funding shifts and changes can create “brain drain” or discourage brilliant minds from entering the field. This could have decade-long ripples. However, I don’t believe these effects are irrevocable.

Science has an incredible capacity for self-correction because it is built on the global exchange of ideas. While policy changes create friction, the private sector and academic institutions often find ways to maintain and celebrate excellence and diversity of thought because they both are essential for innovation. During the pandemic, for profit and not-for -profit organizations joined forces and solved many challenges in a move that I think can teach us what is possible when determined people get together.

The Pharmacologist:

How important has the scientific community been to you?

Akinsanya: Science is a team sport. No one discovers a drug alone. Community provides the support system needed to weather the failures that are so common in our field. ASPET and the associated publications are key instruments for learning. It’s a place where you can step out of your specific organizational silo and engage with the broader discipline of pharmacology. It provides a platform for cross-pollination between academia and industry, which is where the most exciting innovations happen. Having a community like ASPET ensures that you are part of a continuous learning loop.

Williams: Community is essential, and I think this year has highlighted how important it is, even more so just to have a place where you feel like you belong, where you have a group of folks that are like-minded, who support you, who believe in you, who you can call up and say, “I’m having a really hard time. I’m struggling right now.” That kind of support has been something I’ve needed this last year, and ASPET has definitely been a place where I’ve found it. I’ve never felt so welcomed and there’s no competition. Everyone is just so supportive of each other. It’s really beautiful to experience.

Reuben: This is one of the great things I love about my primary division, the Division of Pharmacology Education. We have a program in place where, if we have anyone who’s coming from our division to present an abstract at the national conference (Editor’s Note: register now!), we’ve assigned people to go and visit them. This is something I’ve pushed with other divisions, to build that sense of community and show people we’re happy you’re there.

The Pharmacologist:

Speaking of ASPET’s annual meeting, can you describe your first or best experience at the conference?

Williams: I love going to the poster sessions. That’s probably one of my favorite things to do because I get to see the new projects people are working on. Not their published work, but late-breaking research. I get to meet the trainees that I really enjoy and talk to them and hear what they’re interested in.

As I’m walking through the posters, I catch up with colleagues, and that’s really fun. I also enjoy all the impromptu networking. It’s a new part of my community that’s kind of extended.

I also really like the tables where I can go talk to like the editors of the different ASPET journals. I do that almost every year because it’s helpful in reframing how I think about telling the story of my work. I’m working on a paper now for DMD because of an editor at their table last year who really helped me think about the way I told the story in a unique way. They said, “This part is really novel and interesting,” and now I’m recrafting my paper. It’s the same data, but their feedback changed how I think about presenting it.

Reuben: It’s not just one time, but rather going every year and experiencing that sense of community, making people feel like we want you to be a part of our society. We want you to be active. Be part of leadership.

I love just walking around. If I see somebody who’s alone, I’ll go up and talk to them. I just want them to have a sense that we appreciate that they came. It’s about making everyone feel appreciated, that their presence matters, that the work that they do matters. That’s really important to me.

The Pharmacologist:

Can you each discuss a career highlight?

Akinsanya: A significant highlight has been witnessing the benefit patients derive from the medicines that have been invented by a team of colleagues over the years. Most recently, our MALT1 inhibitor discovery program transitioning into the clinic so rapidly and seeing patients who have limited treatment options respond and maintain response is the kind of impact we want to see.

Another highlight is the “people” milestones—watching a scientist I once mentored lead their own department or publish a breakthrough paper. Being at the intersection of predictive computational models and real-world clinical application during this specific era of medicine is something I find fascinating. Understanding how we will continue to co-evolve with the technology we humans have created will make for interesting years ahead in science and translational medicine.

Williams: I received the PECASE Award, the Presidential Early Career Award for Young Scientists and Engineers, from President Biden, and that was just beyond my wildest imagination of what was even possible. I was just following things that I was interested in, and doing the work I’m passionate about, and to see that work recognized at a national level really helped me feel like I’m doing a good job. It confirmed the potential I have as a scientist. I still have the notification letter and I look at it often, especially when I’m feeling down, you know, or a paper gets rejected or a grant doesn’t do well. It helps.

Reuben: Getting to be the inaugural Senior Associate Provost and Senior Vice President for Faculty Affairs and Community Engagement at Texas Southern University is certainly a career highlight.

But I’ve also had the opportunity to start a new medical school in South Carolina, which is the state I’m from, University of South Carolina School of Medicine in Greenville. Helping put that school together is another highlight. As was attending the first World Congress of Pharmacology, in Kyoto, Japan.

I love to see how different people live. We have different cultures and customs, but we all want the same thing. It’s kind of interesting to me that we all want to have places where we’re safe, where we thrive, where we have resources, where we can care for our families.

I also love watching students move from struggling to success. To watch the light come on. I just received an e-mail from a student at my former institution who wrote, “I didn’t get a chance to tell you this. I really love pharmacology. I’m now going into dental anesthesia, and part of that is because I enjoyed pharmacology with you so much and I wanted to do more in that field.” So that, to me, was a career highlight. That pretty much makes my month, my semester.

The Pharmacologist:

How do you relax in your free time?

Williams: I train in Muay Thai. Less than before, but it’s one of my favorite ways to de-stress and to find community that’s not in science. And it’s such a great way to feel connected to my body and to have time just for myself. I don’t have to show up as a scientist or a professor, I’m just pushing myself and taking care of my body. It’s a cherished part of my week.

Reuben: Spending time with my family. I remember going to a family reunion with my uncle, who has since passed away, and he said, “We’re really blessed because we actually enjoy being with each other.” And the older I get, the more I realize I’d taken that for granted. I assumed everybody’s family was like that!

Akinsanya: I have an interest in photography that “developed” through a love for perspective. In science, we are always trying to visualize the invisible—looking at molecular structures or data patterns. Photography is the artistic extension of that. It’s about finding the right light, the right angle, and capturing a moment of truth. Like my other passion, writing, it is a meditative process for me; it requires a different kind of focus than the lab or the boardroom. It teaches you to observe rather than just look, a skill that is just as valuable in clinical pharmacology as it is behind the lens.